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Erin Burnett Outfront
Judge To Trump: "I Want You To Understand That I Will" Jail You; IDF About To Take Over Palestinian Side Of Rafah Crossing; Johnson Meets With Marjorie Taylor Greene Amid Ouster Threat; Secret Recordings Haunt Trump In Multiple Criminal Cases. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired May 06, 2024 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:38]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
Threatening jail time for Trump. The judge in the hush money case warning Trump directly that if he violates his gag order again, he will go to jail.
And tonight, the Department of Corrections in New York says, we're ready. A former city prison official tells OUTFRONT where Trump would likely do his time.
Plus, breaking this hour, Israel forging ahead with an assault on Rafah. The Israeli forces are reportedly poised to take over a main crossing tonight. We're live on the ground.
And Marjorie Taylor Greene just meeting with the House Speaker Mike Johnson for two hours, same guy she's threatening to oust.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news. Trump threatened with jail time. The judge in the hush money trial today directly telling former President Trump that he will go to jail if he violates his gag order again. That would be the 11th time.
And just moments ago, the former president responded.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have to watch every word I tell you people. He asked me a question, a simple question. I'd like to give it, but I can't talk about it, because his judge just gave me a gag order and said you'll go to jail if you violate it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Well, just to state the obvious, but it's worth doing it here. It has never happened before in American history that a foreign president has gone to jail. Trump would make that history if he is unable to stop attacking witnesses.
Judge Juan Merchan telling Trump today that it appears that the $1,000 fines are not serving as a deterrent and therefore going forward, I'm reading the quote from the judge, this court will have to consider a jail sanction if recommended. Mr. Trump, it's important to understand that the last thing I want to do is put you in jail. You are the former president of the United States, and possibly the next president as well.
And Trump is already threatening that he will defy the judge again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Frankly, you know what? Our Constitution is much more important than jail. It's not even close. I'll do that sacrifice any day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Well, the spokeswoman for the New York City Department of Correction tells "The Daily Beast" that the department is ready should Trump make what he is calling a sacrifice. They say, quote: The department would find appropriate housing for him if he winds up in our custody.
Well, there's a use of the word housing and in a moment, I'm going to speak to New York City's former corrections commissioner about where Trump will likely end up if he goes to jail, what it will look like, what the experience would be. Is it all comes in the context today after this was said by Juan Merchan that the court prosecution today laid out the Trump payments to Michael Cohen, which are at the center of this case.
Now, the jury actually even saw the checks. Now, these checks and you see a signature on them, were mostly written from Trump's bank account when he was president. And this was the money that was allegedly used to repay Cohen for the $130,000 hush money payment.
Paula Reid is OUTFRONT live outside the New York City courthouse to begin our coverage.
And, Paula, you were there inside the courthouse today four all of it, watching this crucial testimony. How was the jury reacting to these witnesses?
PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: You know, the jury was the first thing I look for when I've got in that courtroom, Erin. And what struck me immediately a bound the jury is how perfectly they represented Manhattan. I think you could stop any subway car in the borough, first 18 people who get off, boom, that's exactly what this jury looks like -- 12 jurors and the sixth, alternates.
And they were all so attentive today. Look, at times, this testimony was pretty dry. I've covered a lot of trials at times. It was just deadly boring.
But of course, it's critical to the case. And so, every time I looked get over at the jury, no matter how many times, you know, these witnesses had to go through the same thing again and again just with different dates. Those jurors, Erin, they were all looking at their screens. They were paying attention document by document. And as we know, that's how prosecutors are going to make or break their case with this kind of evidence.
BURNETT: Right. I mean, it is a documents case, but so important that they're paying such close attention. Looking at those screens as you say to see the details, the minutiae on the checks.
So what did you hear from the witnesses today, Paula?
REID: So Jeff McConney, he's significant because this is the first time we've heard from someone who worked inside the Trump Organization.
[19:05:02]
And now he was able to talk about a conversation he had with the former Trump Organization CFO Allen Weisselberg, who's, of course, now in jail for his second perjury conviction.
But McConney a testified to a conversation he had with Allen Weisselberg supported by documents about how they were going to reimburse Michael Cohen for this $130,000. They were going to increase that to offset taxes.
He also testified though that Michael Cohen had been complaining about his bonus. So that all got baked in and then he came up with this plan to divide this over multiple $35,000 check.
So this is the first time that we've heard about how this plan was hatched to reimburse Michael Cohen, the problem is, Erin, that McConney testified that he was never directed by Trump to do any of this. In fact, he never talked to Trump in the year 2017, which is when these documents were allegedly falsified. And he also to testified the Trump was incredibly involved in everything related to the Trump organization until 2017, and that again, that's a problem for the prosecutors because he said once Trump went to the White House, things work chaotic, no surprise, considering we're dealing with Trump, said there were chaotic, and even things like getting check signed. They completely changed their procedure.
Now there was another official, Deb Tarasoff, from the accounting department. She also took the stand, but that was mostly procedural. They were just helping her get in checks for hours and hours and that's when I started looking at the jury, if you like, are they still on check 12? Are they still following along? And they were so attentive, clearly taking their historic task quite seriously.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Paula.
All right. So, Ryan Goodman is here with me now.
So Ryan, just to go through all of this here, there was -- she talked about the two witnesses and I know one of them you think was specifically crucial to the case today, and it came down to two handwritten notes.
RYAN GOODMAN, JUST SECURITY CO-EDITOR-IN-CHIEF: Yeah, they're really an incredible documents that Mr. McConney testified about. So the first document I would even say that they're close to being smoking guns. That -- that's significant. The first document is Allen Weisselberg, the CFO at the time, in his own handwriting contemporaneously recording the internal payments.
So remember that the entire argument by the prosecutors that this was a cover up, they recorded it publicly and in their business records as legal fees. But this is the handwritten note that shows it's nothing about legal fees. In fact, the handwritten notes say this is to gross him up. You do not gross up legal fees.
The exact amount is the $130,000 times two to cover for taxes plus $50,000 for online polling company. And its not that Allen Weisselberg wrote this on a scratch piece of paper, the paper that this is all on is a bank record of Michael Cohen's from the essential consultants care of Michael Cohen on October 27th, shows the fire transfer to who? Stormy Daniels' lawyer.
So he's actually doing the handwritten notes on the hush money payments.
BURNETT: On the actual hush money payments.
GOODMAN: Yeah, it's extraordinary.
And then the second document is McConney's handwritten notes, as the controller of the company and his handwritten notes say as well that this is a gross up -- of two for times the amount for taxes. You don't do that for legal fees. And he also says that the (AUDIO GAP) come from monthly payments from DJT, and then the other witness we hear from today is asked the question, who had the signing authority for this DJT account in 2016 and '17? And her answer is, only Mr. Trump.
BURNETT: Right, right. Now, of course, as we know, these crucial, but we don't yet know Trump's involvement himself. This is Weisselberg and McConney themselves.
GOODMAN: Yes.
BURNETT: What about the other development today on the gag order? You know, it's interesting, Juan Merchan, I was in the room when he had ruled on the $9,000 fine, right? And then today coming in really again, I do not want to send you to jail, certainly for misdemeanor and the way that the judge is paving in this course courtroom, that that makes sense to me, doesn't look like he's a person who wants to do this at all, yet he said it.
Do you think it really will happen if Trump violates the order again?
GOODMAN: I think so. The judge has basically said I have no other choice left and in his written order, he says the same thing. He says, look, $1,000 fines are not deterring this individual, so I'm basically left with no option. And that's what he's saying directly to President Trump as well. You're leaving me with no option. I have no choice. I have to protect the administration of justice.
And then in the written order as well, he says if warranted and appropriate, the next violation will result in incarceration. So there's a little wiggle room --
BURNETT: And that incarceration could be an hour a day, there's a wide remit, right?
GOODMAN: Yes, absolutely. I think he might just be sending him a signal and say, you need to spend a couple hours in incarcerated situation so that it gives you a sense of what this is all about.
BURNETT: Right, the seriousness of it.
All right. Ryan Goodman, thank you very much.
And OUTFRONT now, two people who worked extremely closely with Donald Trump over many years. Omarosa Manigault Newman, the former senior advisor to then President Trump, also a contestant on season one of "The Apprentice", the author of "Unhinged: An Insider's Account of the Trump White House".
And also with me this hour, Jack O'Donnell, the former president and chief operating officer of Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino, which was the focus of his book, "Trumped".
[19:10:00]
Jack, and, of course, I know it's just wonderful to have you back again.
So the judge finding Donald Trump thousand dollars, again for violating the gag order. Now, threatening jail time if Trump violates it again. Jack, just the very basics of it -- you heard Trump outside the courthouse. He's angry about the situation, that's clear, almost a petulance about it.
Will he be able to maintain control and not violate it, again, Jack?
JACK O'DONNELL, FORMER PRESIDENT AND CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER OF TRUMP PLAZA HOTEL AND CASINO: Well, I don't -- I don't think he will be able to maintain control as you know, it's the 2:00 in the morning rants that they usually get him in trouble. He might be able to do that at the court.
You know, the bigger question is, will he purposely violate the order? I think that there's a very good chance that he will, just to test the limits because that is part of Trump's DNA, so to speak.
I think he has a piece inside of him that he wants to dare this man to put him in jail.
BURNETT: And I know, Omarosa, this is something you've talked about. You think he actually does want the judge to send him behind bars?
OMAROSA MANIGAULT NEWMAN, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO DONALD TRUMP: Yes. To Jack's point, he's already made the strategic calculation of what being incarcerated or sentence even for a short time would do to his base. It will galvanize his base and it will feed into this messaging he's been saying that they tried to attack him and gagging and now they have incarcerated me. They've locked me up because of my speaking the truth.
And this is what Donald Trump is doing. And in fact, I believe he's pushing the judge to lock him up so that he can be the victim.
BURNETT: And would play into that.
So now, Jack, in terms of testimony today, Jeffrey McConney, the former Trump Org comptroller, said that it would be, quote, putting it mildly to say the Trump Org was in a period of flux and chaos after Trump became president. That the way the company did business had to change drastically because Trump was less involved, right? And he was -- said he didn't even talk to Trump once and that whole year, even as he's the one writing handwritten notes about these reimbursements to Michael Cohen.
Do you by any of that?
O'DONNELL: I don't at all, Erin. I think that you have -- you have an individual like Weisselberg, first, who is in charge of the finance and accounting in this organization. And he's been doing it a very specific way for 40 years or however many years that it's been. They aren't going to suddenly just change the way they do accounting and float into chaos with the same man running the financing of the organization.
It's just a big stretch for me to believe and quite frankly, I think there's always been the question, how much control do Trump really relinquish when he became president. I think that's an issue as well.
BURENTT: And that's now, the heart of all this, Omarosa says, I said to Jack, do you buy any -- but you are also shaking your head?
NEWMAN: Absolutely not. I do not believe that he wholeheartedly handed over the control of the organization to his sons. First of all, he didn't trust them to make good sound business decisions. So it was all a ruse.
BURNETT: Well, you saw that over years.
NEWMAN: Absolutely.
BURNETT: Right behind the scenes, how we would treat them or how he perceived them.
NEWMAN: And he doesn't tolerate chaos. So even though this gentleman is saying, oh, there was chaos, Donald no tolerance when it comes to his money or his business.
BURNETT: So, Jack, Trump has not looked happy in court. You know, it was very serious when I was there. I mean, he was he was clearly paying attention, but here's just a few images of him today. You know, it's wearing on him. It certainly looks that way, but you say jack that you recognize looks like this from Trump. So what do they tell you?
O'DONNELL: Well, listen, you know, Trump is an angry personality. I mean, somewhat suggests that even bipolar in a way, because he can be one way one second and then suddenly explode.
I think he looks like a man that's on the verge of exploding most of the time. Of course, until it goes -- of course, until he falls asleep. But, you know, because this is a bad look, Erin, and he knows that and this is a sign of weakness in his mind when he's sitting in his room, completely out of control, there's 12 people that are in control of his destiny and he's got to judge admonishing him for his behavior.
So, he's -- you know, he's a caged a cage line right now in my opinion.
BURNETT: And, Omarosa, it's also the time of it, right. I mean, we're now entering yet another week and there's weeks to come, right, the prosecution said at least two more from their side, then the defense. I mean, he could be sitting there for another month.
It's one thing to walk in for a day or two. It's another to be day after day hey, after day, even with the breaks when he goes to the campaign trail and you know, him. How -- how can he manage something like that where you have to get yourself in that groove to deal with that for so long?
NEWMAN: Well, that's just the thing. He can't manage it and the look that he was giving, the images, it kind of scares me a bit because that's the look before Donald Trump does something totally and completely reckless. I'm expecting --
BURNETT: So, really, that's what you see that?
NEWMAN: I looked at that like I'm thinking he is plotting some type of way to get back at the judge to do something big over the weekend to distract from the fact that he is totally out of control and not able to in any way shape his future in that courtroom.
[19:15:05]
BURNETT: So, I want to play a little bit more of what he said when he left court tonight, which is the only time we hear from me, usually walks by all the cameras and he was talking about how long this will go. He was talking about the gag order here is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The government just said that they want two to three more weeks. That means they want to keep me off the trail for two, three more weeks. Now, anybody in there would realize there's no case, you don't have a case. Every legal scholar says they don't have a case. This is just a political witch hunt. It's election interfering.
This is really truly election interference. And it's a disgrace.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Just to be clear, those things are compliant with the gag order. The gag order is about talking about witnesses or juror. So, for any confusion there, but, you know, Jack, knowing him for years as you do and many years in the middle of his career, how much of an impact is this trial having on him based on what you see there?
O'DONNELL: Well, I think it's -- I think it's having a huge impact on him, but the rhetoric that you just heard, there, Erin, is just classic Donald Trump. If its just denying the fact. But you know, the look, he knows that there's consequences here really for the first time in his life where he has a judge that's going to hold him accountable. The jury is going to hold him accountable for his behavior.
And he also knows that there's going to be some pretty sleazy testimony in the next couple of weeks.
And so, you know, he's getting nervous and I think you're -- I think you can see that in his comments.
BURNETT: Omarosa, would you agree? And also in terms of the support that he would like to have in that courtroom, family, Eric's been there twice. That's it. Is that going to be it?
NEWMAN: Absolutely is going to be it. I mean, Don Jr. may come because he may be compelled to by his dad, but Ivanka will be nowhere --
BURNETT: The two that matter the most.
NEWSOM: Those are not --
BURNETT: Ivanka and Melania, right?
NEWSOM: Yeah. Ivanka -- they will be nowhere near that courtroom, and Ivanka has been very strategic about curating her image post-January the 6. And so going by the courtroom would kind of dismantle what she's built in the last couple of years, but certainly, don't expect to see Ivanka -- Melania anywhere near this trial.
BURENTT: Yeah, that would certainly be seismic, but there's no evidence. It's just no evidence of indicating any such thing.
All right. Omarosa, thank you so much. Jack, thank you. Glad to see both of you.
And next, a bed, a chair and a desk, that maybe it, maybe all that Trump gets if be ends up at New York's infamous Rikers Island. The city's former corrections and probation commissioner is next.
Plus breaking news right now, explosions rocking southern Gaza after Hamas had agreed to a ceasefire. We're live on the ground.
And the suspense building after Marjorie Taylor Greene just emerged from a roughly two hour meeting with the House Speaker Mike Johnson. So, will she follow through on her threats to oust him?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:22:26]
BURNETT: Tonight, Rikers, the infamous New York prison is where one former corrections officials says Trump will go if he defies his gag order again, and the judge goes through with his threat of putting Trump in jail.
Former New York City Corrections and Probation Commissioner Martin Horn is OUTFRONT.
And, Commissioner, I really appreciate your time. So you know, this system and all the ins and out of it better than anyone. And so let me just show everyone a map of Rikers Island and on this, we have pinpointed the specific building, the west building.
So, this appears to be the exterior of the building that we're going to show. And I know that you think this may be the specific facility on Rikers where Trump could end up if the judge decides to put him in jail. Tell me about it.
MARTIN HORN, FORMER NEW YORK CITY CORRECTIONS & PROBATION COMMISSIONER: Well, first of all, it's informed speculation on my part, but I do think that it is well suited to this purpose. It was built in the 1990s as the contagious disease unit. It's a series of free-standing buildings with several cells inside each one. The cells are all air condition and completely self, so inside each cell, there's a shower. There's a commode and wash basin.
And in addition, there's an anteroom in front of each cell where the person inside it can be observed for their safekeeping and well-being. And because each unit is self-contained, you could put one person in that building and let the Secret Service have the rest of the building to put in whatever communications equipment and so on that they needed or have as many agents present as they needed.
BURNETT: Yeah. I mean, it's still incredible to just even be having this conversation. So you're talking about a toilet, a sink. I mean, is there -- they're bad in there. Is there -- what else is in the actual cell?
HORN: Well, that's it. There's a bell, a bed. There's a commode and sync combination, stainless steel.
There's a shower in the cell. There's a writing surface, a little table, and a stool to sit on. Not a chair with the back and that's it.
BURNETT: And you're alone in there, right? I mean, he's not -- it wouldn't be with obviously other prisoners just to be clear, or even with his own Secret Service or anything, right? I mean, if the point is this is where you're going in violation of the gag, would he be in there alone?
[19:25:02] HORN: Well, again it depends somewhat on what the judge does. If the judge orders him confined for four hours or six hours, they may well keep him in a cell at the courthouse, but if the judge directs that he be held overnight, I would think they would have to take him to, a, jail? None of the holding cells in the courthouse have accommodations for overnight stays and presumably he would be alone for several reasons. Needless to say, the Department of Correction and the Secret Service would have to work out some sort of an arrangement for these armed agents to the present, to safe guard him therefore, he would have to be kept apart from other prisoners. You wouldn't want them being proximate.
And obviously for his own safety and well-being, you don't want some prisoner deciding that he's going to make himself famous by, so to speak, taking the president off the count.
BURNETT: For sure.
What about also the -- what he would eat or something like that in any time? I mean, does he get to -- does he have prison food or does he get to have brought in whatever he wants?
HORN: Well, all I can speak to is what we have done previously with individuals who have been confined for contempt, and those individuals have received the regular, regimen of food that the other prisoners and the facility receive.
Now, if he comes in and he has some special dietary requirement due to a medical condition or some religious observance, that would be addressed. But other than that, I can't imagine that but there would be a good reason to give him a special diet.
BURNETT: All right. Well, thank you so much, Mr. Martin Horn. I really appreciate your time.
HORN: Quite welcome.
BURNETT: All right. And next, we have breaking news in southern Gaza, new explosions tonight. Israel says a ceasefire deal that Hamas agreed to is just nowhere close to happening. And the assault seems to have been is now in full force. We're live on the ground next.
Plus, new numbers tonight on who is supporting RFK Jr.? And does Trump need to worry now more than Biden?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:31:51]
BURNETT: Breaking news, Israeli forces are just hours away from taking over the Palestinian side of the Rafah crossing. This is according to long time Israeli reporter Barak Ravid. Palestinian news outlets reporting that Israeli forces are shelling the area from the air and with artillery fire. Tanks are also moving in.
This, of course, is where so many civilians have sought refuge during this terrifying and horrible conflict in Gaza. They'd gone to Rafah.
And this comes even as Hamas and agreed to a ceasefire proposal earlier today. But the Israeli prime ministers office responded saying, quote, even though Hamas's proposal is far from Israel's necessary requirements, Israel will send a working level delegation to the mediators. But meantime, obviously, this assault is launching regardless.
Jeremy Diamond is with me. He is in Jerusalem tonight.
So, Jeremy, just to get a sense of, while these back-and-forth are happening, there appears to be significant movement in Rafah. What is happening is best you understand it right now?
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, certainly. I mean, we are seeing very dramatic video of explosions lighting up the night sky in Rafah, but this appears to be more than the airstrikes that we have watched over the course of the last seven months of this war, including in Rafah. Instead, it appears that the Israeli military, according to our analyst, Barak Ravid, that they are moving into Rafah with ground forces in order to take over that rough border crossing, which happens to be along the Egypt to Gaza border, known hear critically as the Philadelphi route, which is a very strategic root of between Egypt and Gaza, where the Israeli military believes a lot of Hamas smuggling operations also take place.
It's not clear exactly the scope of this operation at this point, but it is notable of course that it comes less than 24 hours after the Israeli military ordered tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians living in eastern Rafah, about 100,000 of them to begin evacuating that area. And now less than 24 hours later, it appears that not only is the Israeli military carrying out strikes in eastern Rafah, but also apparently moving in ground forces, including a tank.
So not clear what the spells out for the future of a major ground offensive in Rafah but at least for now it appears that at operation has begin to a certain level.
BURNETT: All right the issue here, of course though, is the civilians, as we talked about Jeremy, we all know that is -- Rafah has been where civilians were told to go for safety from the very beginning of this war.
For months, the United States has warned Israel against attacking on rough up because of civilian casualties. And yet the leaflets we see today on video being dropped in eastern Rafah ordering civilians to flee north. North, which, of course, WHO has said is in the midst of a mass famine such that there's even anything left in the north of Gaza. A deep irony in that.
What are you hearing on the ground about evacuation efforts for civilians?
DIAMOND: Well, it appears that thousands of civilians did indeed begin to heed those warnings earlier today, although it was also causing quite a widespread sense of panic throughout refer, not only in the areas where they are being told to evacuate.
[19:35:05]
And when the Israeli military says go north, they aren't telling them to go all the way to northern Gaza, but north of Rafah to the al- Maghazi area where they've set up a humanitarian zone as well as an expanded humanitarian zone as they call it, in western Khan Younis where they say they brought in tents, shelter, food, medicine, but humanitarian aid official say that the conditions there simply aren't enough to accommodate the number of people in Rafah, particularly if the panic spreads throughout the city in terms of the tens of thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of people who could very soon begin to flood there.
And I anticipate that as these strikes, and this is ground operation is beginning to happen this evening tomorrow, you will see an even larger movement of people fleeing north. And of course, the contrast of all this is the fact that earlier this evening, we were seeing images of Gazans celebrating as this news of Hamas accepting a ceasefire proposal as they have termed, it, began to spread. People began celebrating.
But, of course, now, we have learned that this proposal that Hamas accepted is not the same one that Israel helped craft with Egypt. Israel is still saying that it doesn't meet their coordinate demands. They are sending a delegation, but it is clear that there is still a lot of ground to be made up between these two sides.
BURNETT: And they continue to move on Rafah.
All right. Thank you very much, Jeremy.
I want to go now to retired Army Major General James "Spider" Marks.
So, General Marks, Israel pushing ahead with its assault on Rafah.
At this point, what is the military objective of an operation like this?
MAJ. GEN. JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, first of all, Israel I think has from the outset indicated that Rafah is legitimate target for them and there was certain inevitability to this operation.
The objective clearly is for Israel, for that IDF forces to continue the mission to go after two things, infrastructure, as well as Hamas leadership and Hamas fighters.
Now bear in mind over this what I would say, period, this interregnum of a couple of weeks, Israel has been doing significant intelligence collection in terms of where are those pieces of infrastructure they need to go after and where are the fighters as well?
But also what they've been doing is they've been trying to assess what it is in terms of the best routes in and where you want to try to isolate the fight. You just don't go rushing into Rafah. Then not have some type of controlled exit.
Clearly, the exit into Egypt, Egypt is not going to allow that. So the movement north, but Israel is primarily concerned about. So that's what's going to take place. I would tell you that most of the Hamas fighters as well over this period have been able to do some additional preparation as well as in many cases, I would suspect escaping from the kill zone.
BURNETT: So, General, what do you read into this in the context of the most important ally to Israel and certainly in a world where it has become increasingly isolated, its most important ally, the United States has repeated at least that the president is repeatedly said you don't go into Rafah unless there is a true humanitarian process and that that is completely built up.
Obviously, eight organizations are saying very clearly that it isn't. So what do you make of the fact that Prime Minister Netanyahu was going ahead and doing this in spite, a very clear U.S. admonitions not to?
MARKS: Yeah. I don't want be crude. But I think it's a matter of Netanyahu playing a little bit of chicken. He realizes that the job is not completed until Rafah is clear. And I think many would agree that that has to take place. Let's be frank, Hamas's ideology, it is going to continue to grow. You've got to be able to kill leadership as it exists right now.
But Hamas will in many cases, would be, would expect to see it again in some form, you want to buy yourself some time. So Netanyahu was essentially telling President Biden, look, I got it, but I have to complete this job and he's -- as I said, he's playing chicken. He's going to see whether this administration is going to stop providing the support, both diplomatically, that type of top cover as well as the military support.
BURENTT: Right, to see whether they will really stop it, whether they'll pull the plug, stop something, we'll see. It's a crucial task.
Thank you very much, General Marks. Appreciate your time.
MARKS: Thank you, Erin.
BURNETT: And next, breaking news, Marjorie Taylor Greene just spending roughly two hours with the House speaker that she's threatening to oust. So will she do it? Well, hear what she's saying right now.
And Trump caught on tape secret recordings are now at the center of several of Trumps cases. So, exactly what does he say and how are his words now coming back to haunt him.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:44:07]
BURNETT: Tonight, the House on edge. Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene isn't giving away her next moves as she threatens Speaker Mike Johnson's job, a vote to try to oust him could have come as soon as tonight. Now, the two today then met behind closed doors for two hours and then Greene came out, and this is what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): We are going to be meeting again with Speaker Johnson in the morning based on our discussion and then we'll have more.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Lauren Fox is OUTFRONT on Capitol Hill.
And, Lauren, Greene is obviously keeping everyone guessing, which is just what she wants. That's how she prefers it. Is -- does she have any support within her own party for this sort of okay, two hours of this today, and then going in and doing it again tomorrow?
LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Erin, I actually just caught up with Marjorie Taylor Greene outside of the House as they were leaving their vote series tonight.
[19:45:05]
And she said she's not saying anything about her plans until after she has yet another meeting with Speaker Mike Johnson tomorrow at 12:30. Now, we don't know how long that meeting will go, but like you mentioned, today's meeting, spanning two hours as they continued their discussions. She's not laying out precisely what she wants from the speaker. She's not saying what they are trying to negotiate, instead, just saying that talks are continuing.
I'd also talk to Thomas Massie, who was in that meeting, someone else who is supporting Marjorie Taylor Greene's effort to try to vacate the speakership. He said that he's optimistic. He thinks that Johnson is working in good faith with them, but that he did not want to lay out the details of their conversations because he said it may not even happen at this point. So those are some items to keep an eye on.
The other thing to keep a close eye on is the fact that Republican or losing in patients, Erin. Several of them that we have talked to believe that Marjorie Taylor Greene is using this as an opportunity to fund raise as an opportunity to get followers, as an opportunity to continue to build her own brand at a moment when they argue they should be united because there's a presidential election coming right around the corner.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. DERRICK VAN ORDEN (R-WI): I'd say this is not productive. Republicans, if you're going to wear that jersey, you got to be on the team.
REP. DAVID JOYCE (R-OH): I just don't think that there's anything to be gained from continuing down this motion to vacate. I think this political theater is lazy and it's not governing. And so, people are fundraising off it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOX: And having been through this before, Erin, back in October when Speaker Kevin McCarthy was ousted, I actually talked to one of the members who voted back then Representative Tim Burchett tonight and he said, the difference between now and then is the fact that back then, despite the fact that took them three weeks to get a speaker, they did get a Republican speaker.
He said right now, there's really no guarantee because the margin is so narrow, given the fact that this could drag on for weeks and weeks, there's no heir apparent, there's no one waiting in the wings. He said it's just not the right time and people are getting tired of waiting for Marjorie Taylor Greene to make up her mind -- Erin.
BURNETT: Yeah, we'll see. Now, yeah, it again, wait until tomorrow, at 12 30.
All right. Lauren Fox, thank you so much, as Lauren just caught up with Marjorie Taylor Greene.
OUTFRONT now is the Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna of California.
So, Congressman Khanna, you heard Lauren's reporting and Marjorie Taylor Green, obviously, has been threatening to oust Speaker Johnson four weeks. Still, she is officially not acted on it. Do you think she ever will?
REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): Erin, when I think of her, I'm reminded a Faulkner's line, full of sound and fury signifying nothing.
Everyone knows that Johnson is going to keep the speakership. This is just a total drama, distraction. Speaker Johnson who I disagree with did the right thing by putting up the Ukraine bill, the Taiwan bill, the Israel bill for a vote. And he's going to have overwhelming support from the Democratic caucus to table any motion that Marjorie Taylor Greene puts forward.
BURNETT: All right, so you talk about an overwhelming support from a Democratic Congress. So Democratic Congressman Jim McGovern was talking to Lauren Fox earlier. He told her he would vote to save, Johnson, but then he said he's quote, not a cheap date. And Democrats need something in return. So to you, Congressman Khanna, what is that something?
KHANNA: Well, I'll leave that -- the details for the leadership. I'd be great if we get equal consideration on some of our bills, especially if they're bipartisan bills and have over two-thirds of the House. I think it would be good to have some equal consideration on committees, and that I would leave two the details of a McGovern and leader -- Leader Jeffries. But what I will say is that there are a lot of people are going to vote to table the motion.
BURNETT: So I want to ask you about President Biden because you serve on the national advisory board for his campaign and there's this new poll from ABCs and Ipsos. There was so much interesting detail on this, but it shows obviously a tight race between Biden and foreign President Trump. No clear leader. But it also shows the supporters of Robert F. Kennedy Jr. tend to be Republican at this moment. And right now, they support Trump by 13 points over Biden in a two-way race.
So I guess I'm curious, Congressman. This isn't the way it looked a few months ago. So are you competent this point that Kennedy is a bigger threat to Trump and Biden, or not?
KHANNA: I don't know. I mean, I think it's all over the place and candor, it depends on state to state and in some places, you may be taking more from Trump and others from President Biden. What I do know is that this is a binary race that either President Biden will be re- elected or were going to have to deal with Donald Trump. And I think anyone who cares about climate, who cares about getting money out of politics and a whole host of other issues should support President Biden.
BURNETT: So, today, you tweeted in terms of your political support that the United States needs Bernie Sanders in Washington and you did that because Sanders, congressman, of course, has announced he's running for reelection.
[19:50:02]
So in that context, and this is -- this is the -- this is the crucial question for your party in this election right now, especially with younger voters, Sanders recently talked about Biden and the war in Gaza. Protests have broken out on college campuses.
And here is what Senator Sanders said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): This may be Biden's Vietnam.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Do you agree with him?
KHANNA: Well, here's what I would say. I mean, there are obvious differences between this and Vietnam. There was the draft in Vietnam, almost 50,000 Americans died in Vietnam. It was the number one issue in the election according to polling. But I think what Senator Sanders was saying is that for young people, this is a defining issue, like the anti-Vietnam more protests were, like the anti-apartheid protests were, like the anti-Iraq war protests were. And that we need to really listen to them and bring this war to an end, or we're hurting are standing with many young people around the country.
BURNETT: All right. Congressman Khanna, I appreciate your time and thank you very much.
KHANNA: Thank you.
BURNETT: And next, secret recordings of Trump are now front and center in several cases, including this one and they could be what spells serious trouble for the former president. A special report next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:56:01]
BURNETT: Tonight, caught on tape, secret recordings of former President Trump being used to build criminal cases against him. And right now, his words with Michael Cohen are front and center as the key piece of evidence and is hush money trial. It's not the, only damning tape of the former president being used against him in a criminal trial.
Jason Carroll is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TRUMP: And when you're a star, they let to do it. You can do anything.
BILLY BUSH, TV HOST: Whatever you want.
TRUMP: Grab 'em by the (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's clear in the court of public opinion, Donald Trump bragging about being able to sexually violate women was not enough to derail his campaign when the Access Hollywood tape leaked in October 2016.
But courtrooms are different. Now, questions over whether Trumps others secretly recorded conversations could hurt him with jurors.
MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER TRUMP ATTORNEY: I need to open up a company for the transfer of all the info regarding our friend David.
CARROLL: Jurors in the hush money trial hearing audio of a call in 2016 between Trump and his then lawyer, Michael Cohen.
COHEN: And I spoke to Allen about it, when it comes time for the financing, which will be what --
TRUMP: Listen -- what financing?
COHEN: We'll have to pay so --
TRUMP: Pay with cash.
COHEN: No, no, no, no, no.
CARROLL: Cohen secretly recorded the call. Prosecutors argue it shows Trump's knowledge of how Cohen with the help of former Trump Organization chief financial officer Allen Weisselberg set up a $150,000 hush money payments to former playmate Karen McDougal, the woman who alleges she had an affair with Trump, which he denies.
That call is just one of the potentially damaging recordings connected to the former president and his legal entanglements. Prosecutors pursuing separate cases against the former president in
Georgia and Florida also have recordings of Trump plan to use against him.
TRUMP: Except it is like, highly confidential.
STAFFER: Yeah.
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: Secret. This is secret information.
CARROLL: Special Counsel Jack Smith has 2021 recording of Trump. That's a key piece of evidence in the Mar-a-Lago documents case. On it, Trump acknowledges he kept classified document related to a potential attack on Iran.
TRUMP: See, as a president, I could have declassified it.
STAFFER: Yeah.
TRUMP: Now I can't, you know, but this is still a secret.
STAFFER: Yeah. Now we have a problem.
TRUMP: Isn't that interesting?
CARROLL: Trump later offered various explanations for having the documents.
TRUMP: I have every right to have those boxes. This is purely a Presidential Records Act. This is not a criminal thing.
If you're the president of the United States, you can declassify just by saying it's declassified, even by thinking about it, I declassified everything.
CARROLL: Trump's own words also at the center of the election subversion case he's facing in Georgia.
TRUMP: In my opinion, it's never too late. So, that's the story, folks. I -- look , we need only 11,000 votes.
CARROLL: That's audio from Trump on a phone call January 2nd, 2021, pressuring Georgia secretary of state to find enough votes needed to overturn his loss.
JOEY JACKSON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: When you have a defendant who says what they did, what do you need emails and text messages than anything else for? That's the critical evidence. But like anything else, it can be spun.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: So as you, laid out, Trump, you know, himself is giving prosecutors that gift, right? CARROLL: Yeah.
BURNETT: Give me the gift of all this these tapes, but, you know, tapes alone don't do it as even many times, Michael Cohen has said in conversations to us, right?
CARROLL: Right. And not when it comes to the former present because when you think about this, this is a man who has made in the past any number of inflammatory statements and there is this argument that because he's made so many of these statements in the past, that perhaps the public has become somewhat numb to it.
So these recordings might not end up having the same impact it would with any regular person simply because of the person saying it.
BURNETT: Which is pretty amazing. I remember when who was at Comey said, lordy, I hope there are tapes, because Trump's always saying there's tapes when there aren't tapes.
CARROLL: But it's going to take the more than tapes.
BURNETT: Right.
CARROLL: Which will take more than tapes.
BURNETT: Which is incredible because there's so much tape.
CARROLL: Yeah.
BURNETT: Well, all right. All right. Jason Carroll, thank you very much.
And thanks very much to all of you for joining us. As always, we'll see you back here tomorrow night, same time.
"AC360" with Anderson Cooper starts right now.
